5 years ago
Sunday, November 02, 2008
Happy Birthday Tess
Tess turned 91 on Friday. I had worked out a surprise party with "CR", one of the barmaids at Mitchell's. The plan was to take Tess out for dinner, like we usually do once a week, and have a few friends wish her a happy birthday. CR made this wonderful, and delicious cake for her. It turned out I had to work late, and we had to cancel the dinner, so I brought the cake over this morning. Tess was delighted!
Firebrand conversation at Mitchell's
Last night, I got into trouble with the barmaid ("JH"), and the woman I'd like to date ("CB"), who, incidentally, doesn't want to date me. The topic? Abortion.
It's just amazing that these interesting conversations always occur late at night, after too many beers and usually a couple of shots. That's too bad, because I enjoy debating these topics, including listening to the other person's views. I may not agree with them, but I think a healthy discourse helps to solidify one's own opinions, and you never know what might change your mind. The problem is that emotions run hot, and the friendly debate turns ugly.
I agree with JH and CB on many things. We're all voting for Barack Obama. We also agree on...hmmm, let me think here...what else do we agree on? The three of us agree on some things, the biggest that Obama would be a better president than McCain.
We were discussing politics, and smiling and all happy and in agreement as we tried to talk our friend into changing his vote from Bob Barr's Libertarian party, to Barack Obama. Then JH began whispering to CB, though not too quietly, that the fellow at the end of the bar was going to vote for John McCain, strictly to get Roe vs. Wade overturned. Her voice rose as she said "Some MAN is going to tell me what I can or can't do with my body!!" (Imagine her hands on her hips, and her head bobbing left to right as she spoke) Then I got involved, "Wait a minute. Why shouldn't the guy get a say in that? The child is his too." "Well he doesn't have to carry the child for nine, no, it's TEN months...", she said. "But what if the man wants to rear the child himself? Why shouldn't he get that chance?" I was going strong by now. "They want to outlaw abortion, even in the case of rape or incest!", she added. "Yes, but I'm not talking about that!", I replied, drawing closer to the fire. At this point, our very wise Libertarian friend left. CB also went out for a smoke, and I knew she was fuming. But I couldn't keep my damn mouth shut. JH and I went back and forth a little bit more, then, in the span of a second, I dug a 12 ft. deep grave (six feet is too shallow), jumped in, and pulled all the dirt on top of myself, by saying "Well then you should keep your legs shut!" I regretted it instantly. What I said was sort of what I meant, but not nearly as mean-spirited as the words I actually spoke. JH walked away. When she returned, she told me just how mean that was. I apologized, finished my beer, paid, and left.
The three of us had a similar conversation, gosh, last Saturday night, after many beers (think there's a pattern here?) That time, I buried myself when I asked them why women, considering the huge impact on their lives that a pregnancy could have, don't ensure using some form of birth control, or protection. To me, that's like a fireman going into a burning building without any equipment. Sure, he *might* come out unscathed, but he might not. Why take the chance? So CB drilled me with "Haven't you ever gotten caught up in the moment, and not used protection?" "Yes, of course I have, but I'm not the one who ends up raising the kid, so I would think it would be in the woman's best interest to have it." "Though I would be there for her, if that happened!", I hastily added (as if I still had a chance with her).
The ironic point is, I agree with RvW. There are several factors to consider. In my opinion, rape, incest, or to save the mother's life are valid reasons for abortion, and I'd go even futher, and say that instances of severe birth defects or severe mental retardation could warrent the operation. I think a woman should have a choice, but I also think that in the case of consensual sex, the man should have a say whether his child gets aborted too. I mean, it takes two to make a child. If she thinks enough of the man to let him into her body, then shouldn't his opinion count for something? I'm a firm believer in women's rights, but what about men's rights?
Abortion is killing. Sometimes, like war, killing is a necessary evil. But it should seen for what it is, not rationalized away by saying that the fetus isn't a child until birth. It should be avoided if at all possible, and there should be regret when it happens. If a person (man or woman) isn't mature enough to be responsible regarding sex, then they should keep their zippers zipped, or legs closed. Birth control should come before sex, not after.
That's what I was trying to say last night.
It's just amazing that these interesting conversations always occur late at night, after too many beers and usually a couple of shots. That's too bad, because I enjoy debating these topics, including listening to the other person's views. I may not agree with them, but I think a healthy discourse helps to solidify one's own opinions, and you never know what might change your mind. The problem is that emotions run hot, and the friendly debate turns ugly.
I agree with JH and CB on many things. We're all voting for Barack Obama. We also agree on...hmmm, let me think here...what else do we agree on? The three of us agree on some things, the biggest that Obama would be a better president than McCain.
We were discussing politics, and smiling and all happy and in agreement as we tried to talk our friend into changing his vote from Bob Barr's Libertarian party, to Barack Obama. Then JH began whispering to CB, though not too quietly, that the fellow at the end of the bar was going to vote for John McCain, strictly to get Roe vs. Wade overturned. Her voice rose as she said "Some MAN is going to tell me what I can or can't do with my body!!" (Imagine her hands on her hips, and her head bobbing left to right as she spoke) Then I got involved, "Wait a minute. Why shouldn't the guy get a say in that? The child is his too." "Well he doesn't have to carry the child for nine, no, it's TEN months...", she said. "But what if the man wants to rear the child himself? Why shouldn't he get that chance?" I was going strong by now. "They want to outlaw abortion, even in the case of rape or incest!", she added. "Yes, but I'm not talking about that!", I replied, drawing closer to the fire. At this point, our very wise Libertarian friend left. CB also went out for a smoke, and I knew she was fuming. But I couldn't keep my damn mouth shut. JH and I went back and forth a little bit more, then, in the span of a second, I dug a 12 ft. deep grave (six feet is too shallow), jumped in, and pulled all the dirt on top of myself, by saying "Well then you should keep your legs shut!" I regretted it instantly. What I said was sort of what I meant, but not nearly as mean-spirited as the words I actually spoke. JH walked away. When she returned, she told me just how mean that was. I apologized, finished my beer, paid, and left.
The three of us had a similar conversation, gosh, last Saturday night, after many beers (think there's a pattern here?) That time, I buried myself when I asked them why women, considering the huge impact on their lives that a pregnancy could have, don't ensure using some form of birth control, or protection. To me, that's like a fireman going into a burning building without any equipment. Sure, he *might* come out unscathed, but he might not. Why take the chance? So CB drilled me with "Haven't you ever gotten caught up in the moment, and not used protection?" "Yes, of course I have, but I'm not the one who ends up raising the kid, so I would think it would be in the woman's best interest to have it." "Though I would be there for her, if that happened!", I hastily added (as if I still had a chance with her).
The ironic point is, I agree with RvW. There are several factors to consider. In my opinion, rape, incest, or to save the mother's life are valid reasons for abortion, and I'd go even futher, and say that instances of severe birth defects or severe mental retardation could warrent the operation. I think a woman should have a choice, but I also think that in the case of consensual sex, the man should have a say whether his child gets aborted too. I mean, it takes two to make a child. If she thinks enough of the man to let him into her body, then shouldn't his opinion count for something? I'm a firm believer in women's rights, but what about men's rights?
Abortion is killing. Sometimes, like war, killing is a necessary evil. But it should seen for what it is, not rationalized away by saying that the fetus isn't a child until birth. It should be avoided if at all possible, and there should be regret when it happens. If a person (man or woman) isn't mature enough to be responsible regarding sex, then they should keep their zippers zipped, or legs closed. Birth control should come before sex, not after.
That's what I was trying to say last night.
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